The Other Side

Rob Woods - From Charity Job To Bright Spot Business

• Jane Curtis

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Ready to trade one-off wins for lasting momentum? Bright Spot founder Rob Woods joins us to unpack how charity professionals can build a sustainable, values-led business without burning out or getting lost in feast-or-famine cycles. Rob shares the pivotal moment he moved from training days to the Bright Spot Members Club, creating an environment where fundraisers stay inspired, practise proven techniques, and follow through long after the workshop buzz fades.

We talk strategy and structure: how to test offers by teaching, why consistency outperforms talent, and the daily habits that protect deep work. Rob describes the power of choosing one channel, and showing up reliably so trust compounds. He also offers practical guidance for a safer leap: reduce hours before resigning, calculate your financial runway, and treat your new venture as a business from day one. 

Community is at the core of Rob’s success. From early accountability groups to long-term learning cohorts, he shows how the right relationships shorten the learning curve, normalise ambition, and facilitate decision-making. If you want a clear, human blueprint for moving from charity role to thriving freelancer, built on generous marketing, practical tools, and steady consistency, this conversation delivers.

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Check out his website where you can find out more about Corporate Partnerships Mastery, Major Gifts Mastery programs, and Brightspot Members Club, and also listen to his Fundraising Bright Spots Show podcast.

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If this resonates, please follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a quick review to help more charity professionals find it. 

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Jane Curtis helps charity professionals transition from 9-5 employment to flexible and profitable freelance careers.

With over 20 years in the charity sector, she led teams that raised tens of millions of pounds from events before going freelance in 2018 and launching her own business in 2020.

She supported over 100 event fundraisers through her Collective membership during the pandemic. Now, she offers her signature "Charity Freelancing Course," a high-touch 1:1 programme for consultants, coaches, and freelancers seeking to make more money working fewer hours doing what they love, and in-person events like The Rich & Restored Retreat. She also provides occasional strategic events consultancy to charities.

Known for her positive, creative approach and calm, no-nonsense style, Jane is a mum of two humans and one dog. She loves swimming, cycling, avocados and being by the sea.

Ready to transform your charity expertise into a profitable freelance career? Join Jane's Feel Good Freelancing community.

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Jane Curtis:

Welcome to the other side of Charity Freelancers Podcast. I'm Jane Curtis and this is where we explore the journey from charity professional to thriving freelancer or business owner. Each week I chat with individuals who've made this leap from the charity sector, sharing invaluable practical tips and incredible insights firsthand. So whether you're considering making the move or you're already on your freelance journey, you're in the right place. So grab yourself a cupper, settle in, and let's dive in to today's conversation. Today we are joined by Rob Woods. Rob started working in fundraising at the NSPCC in 2000 as part of the Full Stop campaign. And in 2005, he became a training manager there, delivering and managing learning and development for the 300 plus fundraisers. A few years later, he started his own company offering fundraising training to other charities. This company became known, um uh it's still known as Bright Spot, uh, and it's been going ever since um 20, oh, two 2005. Is that right? Is that right, Rob? Well, I'll I'll just check that in a minute. Um and he's also hosted the podcast Fundraising Bright Spot Show, which started in 2019 and is still going very, very strong with 200,000 downloads and 178 episodes to its name. So I will be wanting to pick your brains, Rob, about that because this is the second one that I've recorded of this show. So um, yes, small, small fry in comparison. Um, welcome Rob. Really nice to see you and have you here today.

Rob Woods:

Thank you so much, Jane, for that lovely intro.

Jane Curtis:

Uh so Bright Spot Members Club. I'm really curious as to where this came about, how did it grow? Give us a little bit of a background on all of that.

Rob Woods:

Okay, so for years, my main way of helping fundraisers get some ideas but also some mojo and inspiration to do certain things that raise more money. Uh, my way of doing that for years and years was to do go into a charity and do one or two training days and go away again. And that was fine because even in the early days, I knew there were techniques I had discovered by interviewing really successful fundraisers that many people weren't using. So the the content was always strong. Um, but and by the end of the training day, invariably most people were sort of up and had some good ideas and were fully intending to follow through on them. And it's true, even in those early days, I think many people followed through on some of the ideas, but I just started to notice this pattern that if I bumped into someone, you know, four or five months later or a year later and asked them how they're doing, quite often they'd say, Yeah, quite well. And I did those things, but I also sensed quite often their sort of extra momentum would tail off. And uh, you know, sometimes it tailed off after four months, and sometimes you know that that initial boost would last a few weeks or something. But I started to get a really strong sense that just because you know something or you've heard a technique or you know consciously a strategy, that's really just the beginning part of actually whether more money ever gets raised, to know something is not necessarily to do something. And um you know, said differently, success in fundraising, as in life, is obviously more of a marathon than a sprint. Yeah, not one good pitch, it's not one good phone call, it's not even one good meeting by a leader with their team. Success, I mean, everyone everyone has a bit of luck now and again, but almost always consistent success is about doing more of the right things consistently, week on week, month on month. Yeah, and that's obvious in a way, but then I looked at my way of helping people, which was to go and do a training day. Uh so however good that was, it's not a surprise necessarily if it, you know, that so-called ebbing house effect kicked in. So I can't remember what the date was, uh, seven or eight years ago. I wanted a way of helping people stay in my environment, a glass half full. Yes, you can raise more money if you work hard at certain things, that kind of world, encouraging environment. I wanted a way of people staying in that world long after my training day had finished.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah.

Rob Woods:

And uh I already had some blogs, and uh actually my first iteration of that was to write a book. Uh, because you know, long after the day people could still be reading or referring back to the book. But then this key shift forward was to create a membership, and I called it Bright Spot Members Club. Yeah, and um, you know, it's a largely virtual thing where people can watch training films, download helpful techniques and notes, and also each week we do a live minimum one-hour session, sometimes me on my own, sometimes with a guest expert, in which uh we help fundraisers with certain techniques. In fact, um, just about a month ago, our club loved the session you came in to do, uh Jane, so you know all about that. But um uh uh I love Bright Spot Members Club because fundraising is as hard as it's ever been, especially because people are more isolated, and so so often it's not even the technique that you need, it's just the encouragement, the reassurance, and the connection and the the sense of solidarity. Uh and I I feel that's as relevant as it's ever been.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so just to um rewind slightly, when you left NSPCC, did you did you what did you do between that point and starting Bright Spot? Was there some work freelance work in between that?

Rob Woods:

Or no, I I was really fortunate in that my manager um when I felt I I wanted to, you know, she was giving me good feedback about how how good my courses were that I was delivering in-house for the NSPCC. But when I asked for a raise, she said, no, I'm sorry, we can't do that. Uh my hands are tied for various reasons. But if you're you know, if you're looking at some level to try and be have some advantage trying to pay your mortgage, why don't you do a little bit of what I do, which is go and do get some freelance training gigs on the other on the side for other charities? And honestly, I it had never occurred to me before she said that that I I could ever or would be allowed to do that, but with her blessing, I just started, and that the big gift of that was I discovered that I wasn't only valuable in the context of the NSPCC, which my brain had presumed, oh, I'm conquered here, but that's just because XYZ. Within doing a couple for these other charities, I discovered actually the skill I've been working so hard on is more valuable just out elsewhere to all charities than I ever could have realised. Because I've been working so hard on these techniques, I didn't realise that they were that valuable. So then um uh a couple of years later, I I properly left and set up, then it was called Woods Training Limited. Um, so uh Woods Training Limited in due course became Bright Spot because I also realised I didn't want forever to be the only person able to help charities. I realised actually it wasn't about me per se, it was about these techniques and ideas. Yes. And it didn't need to be me always delivering.

Jane Curtis:

What um a wonderful manager to have to offer that idea and suggestion for you to try something new, you know, but with the safety blanket of still having employment. I think that can often be the thing that really it is that kind of, you know, do I jump and hope that a net appears, or can I do this sort of incrementally? Um, for people I work with anyway. I I find that can often be the thing that holds them back or slows them down.

Rob Woods:

Yeah.

Jane Curtis:

You were very fortunate, you were very fortunate.

Rob Woods:

Unbelievably fortunate, and I appreciate most people won't have that. And I agree, one of the biggest barriers you know better than me, but over the years, various people have asked for my tips about kind of starting a freelance thing. And yeah, one of the hardest things, however able and skillful you are and valuable your thing is, is there's always a lag time between leaving paid employment and getting even if you're utterly brilliant, there's still the lag time before your your um your schedule is filled up with people who are able to pay you.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, exactly.

Rob Woods:

Um and then the of course many people, especially if they've been around a while and they've got a network, they they they they understandably uh the challenge is there's all these people told them how great they are correctly, and then there's all these people who are wanting to pick their brains and have coffee without having to to pay an invoice. Um, but then there's this always this this lag time bit before that that turns into a kind of a steady workflow, and then unfortunately, a thing that so often happens, and this is fine because some people want to do that as their freelance thing and be uh you know, do short-term things or maternity covers or interims, and and that is the business model many people want to do. But I also am aware that some people who don't intend to do that, they intend to have a niche and be the best solution to a particular element of fundraising or charity leadership or coaching or whatever. They've got these big dreams, but because of that lag time, they have to to accept to pay the mortgage something they hadn't intended to.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah.

Rob Woods:

They effectively go back to doing a similar job to what they were doing before. It's just now they're doing it three days a week rather than in-house, and then the fire slightly goes for from this original zeal to carve out a real niche.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can relate to that. Um, yeah. I mean, for for what it's worth, um I'm so pleased that you did what you did because you were the first person. I think I've shared this with you before. You were the first. This is not to just really inflate your ego at all, but like you were the first person I saw who had left charity to set themselves up as a kind of with an entrepreneurial um idea, I guess, or or um and it and to me that gave me yeah, permission and it really just opened up my eyes to what was around. You know, I'd seen people leave charity and set themselves up as consultants, but I hadn't seen what you were doing, and it excited me. And I thought, well, you know, if Rob can do it, it must so thank you from me. And I'm sure to many others as well.

Rob Woods:

So you're very welcome. And I I've uh I've enjoyed our chats over the years as as you've had, you know, always you've had that idea and and that zeal, and you've tried a couple of things and they've worked well enough, but you've also you know reiterated and tried a slightly different version of it. Um, and again, that's a really good example to everybody. That it the very first idea we have is very rarely the one that sticks for the very long term, uh, and and and that's just inevitable, I think.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, no, indeed. Um, and that leads me very nicely on to the next question. So, how did you come to the conclusion that what you were offering was the thing that charities really wanted and needed? Did you do a lot of testing? How did all how did that come about?

Rob Woods:

Again, I'm I'm not the best classic entrepreneur in terms of testing the way that these uh you know guru entrepreneurs tend to talk about on podcasts about these these these tech CEOs and stuff. I it is true I test, but most of my testing comes from teaching, and I try teaching a fundraising skill a certain way, and and in the early days not all of it would work, but one bit would, and then I'd I'd basically build on what worked from that course. Um so I do pay attention to my core business, my core number one job is to create content that helps fundraisers believe success is possible, and then have the techniques to go and do it, and again, hopefully have a bit of fire in their belly to go and do it. The thing I'm quite good at is teaching. I definitely that's where I'm at now with that skill is thousands of hours of teaching and learning from it. Um, in terms of as a CEO of a business, um, honestly, I I'm still not the most natural in that kind of way of how I try out new ideas or research market opportunities and pilot and learn. And um, I've made a bit of progress in that area, skill-wise, but a lot of that's down to the the help and encouragement from various colleagues and members of my team who frankly are better entrepreneurs than me.

Jane Curtis:

Um so talk me through a day-to-day, a day in the life of Rob Woods. What would be a normal working day in your world?

Rob Woods:

Okay, so although I've said my day job is teaching, um I slightly lament that the number of days in which I'm largely teaching are much fewer now, uh, because a lot of my responsibility is now things to help the whole company succeed. But broadly I've got two hats to wear. That one is planning for and preparing for the next courses I'm doing and making those as good as they can be. And even the new masterclass we're uh doing next week, it's gonna be the first time we're doing it, is a big session, a big open room session, and any anyone can come on it, even if they're not on one of my mastery programs. Um, I've delivered that content probably more than a hundred times, and it was working honestly pretty well after the sixth time, but still a lot of yesterday was various conversations with various people who can help me make that content even better because of these new fresh stories, these examples of people who applied my way of writing, in this case, fundraising applications. And they, you know, this fundraiser at this wonderful environmental charity, after three years of applying to Jingle Jam and not succeeding, she went on my writing course, rewrote her application and did it my way, and and they won Jingle Jam, and it's been worth 280,000 pounds. And I I caught up with her yesterday, and it was just a joy to hear this is a massive win for them. But um, I get excited just thinking about that. But I could have just done my course next week and it's already good, but it'll be even better if I can show people the before and after of those two applications.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah.

Rob Woods:

Um, so at the risk of going down lots of tangents, hat one is can I make my courses even better, even after all this time? Or or it might be the next podcast or the next blog, can I make it or the next Breakfast Club, can I make it even better rather than ever rest on my laurels? And hat two, like I say, is me the leader of Bright Spot. Um in any given day, there's usually at least one basically after doing some meditating and or reading a a good book about these kinds of ideas and or journaling, and that might last up to 20 to 30 minutes. I my key thing is to decide what are my three to five most valuable things I must move forward today. Otherwise, I get lost in the to-do list of 22 things and I do my best, and I'm still not the best time manager, but I do my best after writing out that to-do list to write one of those on a post-it note and put that right under my nose.

Jane Curtis:

Right.

Rob Woods:

Doesn't mean I have to do it first, because sometimes I'm not feeling it. I want to get a quick win, easy win, or just pay an invoice, just get that off. So, but having written it on a post-it note, one of those big valuable things, and yesterday, getting managing to get get a chat with this person who's got such a valuable addition to my course. Um, that's what I wrote in my post-it note. Um, basically, the rest of how I manage my day is keep taking breaks, but keep doing as many of those top three to five valuable, often harder things across the day. I'm on good form in the morning. I go for coffee at about 11, hopefully, having got one or two of those valuable things done. Uh now I tend to take longer for lunch than ever I used to. Uh not always an hour, but usually I take at least 30 to 40 minutes nowadays to have a decent break because I am starting to learn that that sends my brain a signal of not just survive and tick, tick, tick and forever rush and you're catching up, but send my brain a signal, it's okay. Not everything on that list of 22 makes a massive difference, but two or three of them, even just two or three insights or decisions you make, make a disproportionate difference to being able to help more fundraisers. Yes. And I have found that weirdly, forcing myself to take more of these breaks and properly switch off at lunchtime, maybe go for a little stroll, maybe just go and rip read a book or something. Weirdly, in the last year or so, I've I've had more good ideas and made more on the whole better decisions, or gone and pushed a valuable thing forward. I'm doing a bit more of that than I used to when I was forever rush, rush, rush, got to get more things done by the end of the day.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um, you mentioned mornings, you're better in the mornings. I think that a lot of people would relate to that. Um, what happens when you have that mid-afternoon slump? What what do you what gets you through that? Um you just stop work and go and have a little nap. I've been known to do that sometimes.

Rob Woods:

Again, uh in the last couple of years, I have started doing that in a way I never thought one should or could, and um uh definitely not every day, but if I'm really feeling exhausted, I absolutely give in to it and and do that. Um uh and sometimes I'll just feel even if not like exhausted, I'll feel like my brain just isn't as clear thinking and brave mid-afternoon as I would like. So so so I do just stop and I either you know have a little lie down on my bed and and and read a novel rather than a working non-fiction book. And then either at that point, some often that's just enough of of downtime, but I think broadly um I I put less pressure on myself mid-afternoon to perform at a higher level than I'm able to. I've read certain uh book books, I think there's one by Daniel Pink called When, just about the research that proves this is just the the true to do with the natural rhythms of most of us. So now I'm more likely to give in to it and not label that as laziness, but label that as an intelligent thing to do. And I have also noticed, anyway, I tend to have to be on better form late afternoon, anyway. So and also my kids come home at about 3 40. So um I tend to sort of have a break with them at that point, and and then often I'm I have an another good hour or so uh late afternoon if I'm not then doing parent taxi taking people to sports clubs and things.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um do you snack? Do you are you a grazer?

Rob Woods:

Uh I really enjoy my mid-morning coffee and um either if I'm feeling uh virtuous, then it's with some cashew nuts or mixed nuts, or at the moment, frankly, uh for the last week or so, it's it's um a bit of toast with some peanut butter is the honest answer to that.

Jane Curtis:

That's very virtuous. You don't get it.

Rob Woods:

Yeah, it's still there was a period where I was I was cutting out really trying to reduce the carbs overall. But uh I am managing to eat fewer sweet things than was my habit for years.

Jane Curtis:

Yes, yeah. Tastes do change, don't they, the older you get. I um I have this, I have a lot of after-school snacks in the cup for the children, which uh can be yeah, quite tempting. I have to say it's hard, isn't it? Yeah, create some boundaries around that. Um so do you listen to music when you're working, Rob, or or not really. No.

Rob Woods:

Um uh for years I've known that I get too easily distracted.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah.

Rob Woods:

Uh it sounds weird, but I think some people think more in concepts and analysis. And I in order to work something out, uh my brain seems to think in words if that's not too weird a thing to say. So certainly if I'm doing any kind of writing, if there's if the song's playing with with with words, I I can't perform can't write a good sentence.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah.

Rob Woods:

Some people really appear not to to have that as a thing, and so the that they they love the stimulation of of music, but I I tend not to.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm the same. I get distracted too easily. I mean, I can listen to something that's classical or you know, just no lyrics um occasionally, but even then sometimes it's too much to uh I just get drawn in. Um so um tell me a bit about networks or communities that you found useful since you've been self-employed that might help others listening.

Rob Woods:

Uh I think broadly um this is divided into two because more recently, because it's not just me now, it's Bright Spot. I'm blessed with lots of well not lots of some wonderful I I've got a wonderful team. Um so now I've got a network uh of the of those people who I'm checking in with, not all of them every week, but some of them I'm I'm checking in with every week. So that's my network. Uh there's a brilliant fundraiser who I work with at BrightSpot called Ben Swart, and we have regular chats, and they are so unbelievably helpful to be able to run through all kinds of things, and then there's a couple of other people who I rely on. Um, but when I was starting out and I didn't have this wonderful support network, I recognised this as quite important, and the key thing I did, in addition to to, you know, I I had a couple of friends, and one thing I did was create a kind of a a support network with three other people who were running their own business at the time. Um all three of us, no, all four of us were trainers, or at least included training within what we did. And uh rather than have those chats separate, I started uh like of an informal group, and we would, I can't remember how often, but we would catch up every quarter or whatever, and it was a kind of an action learning set, and we'd share what was going on and get encouragement for for actually you're probably doing better than you realise you are, and we'd share whatever you know where is the challenge of pricing or pri challenge of feast or famine clients, or and we would just so that's what I did then, and I would highly recommend that to any of your listeners. Of um to if you've you've probably already got some buddies out there, but actually go a step further and make it a thing that we we regularly check in, be it virtually or even in person, and um I found those sessions enormously uh uh valuable. You know, we'd always come away with with good ideas and reassurance, but also just knowing it was there kind of just uh made me feel overall less up against it and less alone. So that probably would be my top tip. In addition to, uh and I'm not just saying this because of your wonderful thing that you do. The one of the best things I did that first year I became self-employed was to sign up to uh um uh a year-long learning course with a uh trainer for small businesses called Peter Thompson. And even though it was really wasn't cheap, and in a way I felt I couldn't afford it, every month I would spend an entire day with Peter and a bunch of other business owners learning all kinds of strategies, and I think that really filled a big challenge for our listeners. I think is no question you've got skill as a leadership coach or you know, uh whatever your thing is, analysing data, like major gifts fundraiser, what no question. I bet you're brilliant at it, but I think many people underestimate it, it takes an awful lot more than that. There's all these other things to do with the running of your business or your freelance business. Yeah, and I I've I just got a very steep learning curve and helped a lot by going to those one session every month for a whole mue. I was still really massively conscious of everything that I wasn't doing well and I needed, I still hadn't done. But apart from anything else, the accountability of that group and the fact there's other people way ahead of me pulled me to somehow out of my comfort zone do certain things. That's when I when I wrote my first tips booklet. Uh uh, in fact, in fact, when I wrote my first blog, when I wrote my first tips booklet, and then because I'd done those two things, then I dared to believe I could write my first book. In addition to all these other things about marketing and pricing and all the rest of it, you know, deciding to hire a VA, which probably I wouldn't have done had I lots of other, I think, good decisions I made happened because I was I got myself into a group where I was both learning, being taught, but also sort of accountability.

Jane Curtis:

Yes, and it kind of normalises some of that stuff, which you know, we don't know what we don't know. And when you've been in employment in a in in a sector that is quite particular and you know, perhaps quite siloed, you know, and and we're not maybe exposed to a lot of how things work in the commercial world. Um, that is such it's not just a learning, but it's an unlearning, um, I found. And so being in those spaces, putting myself in those spaces with people who uh for whom that was perhaps more normal, um uh was extremely, yeah, it was mind expanding. Um and I love it. I love doing that uh still now, you know. Um really, really valuable. Um, so before we finish up, I'd love to know about if if someone listening had not made the jump from nine to five employment, they were still working in charity, um, but they were kind of gearing themselves up to to step out of the world of employment. What advice would you give them? Um, what would you tell them to do?

Rob Woods:

Um there are several things, of course. You know, there's there's dozens of things, but some that I found useful. Uh one is obviously be really organised in checking out your finances and working out potentially if you make the leap, how long you can survive without many invoices, that much money coming in. Uh, and that's vital for some of the reasons I said earlier, because it lets you know how brave you can be, and or you might wisely conclude can I find a middle way where I minimise the risk? Because I it is more common nowadays, you can negotiate with your organisation where you've got a day job to reduce your hours to three days a week or whatever.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah.

Rob Woods:

Um, I I'm I'm all in favour of um minimising. Minimizing downside and risk so that then you can do the brave thing rather than it's either either I stay or I go. And either has has either is uh got big challenges to it. So um that's the first thing. Uh A, because it makes it more likely you'll do the brave thing and make the world a better place with this new wonderful idea you've got. Um, and B, it it it it it makes it more likely you'll you'll do it when you do do it, your your your chances of surviving and thriving are greater because you're being pragmatic about it. Um uh short quick thing, maybe not everyone will agree with this, and that's fine, but an early tip I was given was to not refer to my new thing as as freelance. But even though I in a way it was, because it was just me offering some training courses, and effectively that was freelance. Early on, I decided to only ever refer it to it, even when talking to my my family about it, as my business, yeah, rather than doing some freelance work, and it just sent me a different signal about how valuable it was and how seriously I was taking it. Um there are some industries in which being a freelancer, all the connotations are only good, but for me, I felt prouder and more determined when I talked about my business than my freelance work.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, yeah.

Rob Woods:

Um another thing I found uh in terms of you're talking about things you don't you sometimes have blind spots and you don't know what you don't know. One of those is often you don't know how good you are, you don't know what your strengths are, because very often the things that people most value about you aren't the things you have to work hardest on because they're just you've always seen the world that way, and you kind of think, well, what doesn't everyone do that? So uh valuable exercise for me was going to five, six, seven of people who know you well who you've worked with, and asking them to choose two or three words, positive words that they think of about working with you or at the end of working with you on a project. And um for me that was really revealing because this wonderful fundraiser call Sarah used the I-word, she said, You you're just don't be so surprised, Rob, you just are really inspiring, and uh and uh it had never never occurred to little old Rob. I knew my courses I tried to make them useful, but never I would never dare to own the label inspiring person. But then the the several other people I talked to also used the I-word about me. Oh, nice. So A, that was such a a lift for my confidence, anyway. But also when I became to brief designers when I wanted a logo or a website or whatever it was, I dared to use these words they used about me in a way that left to my own devices, I I wouldn't have known that that's what people experience. I would have talked about the things I try so hard at.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah.

Rob Woods:

So that's a really doable thing for many of your listeners. Um hopefully many of the words they use you're not surprised by, but very often there's one or two that you wouldn't necessarily have confidently said yourself and written near the top of the list.

Jane Curtis:

Yes.

Rob Woods:

Uh, and um, I I think it's a really it's also an enjoyable thing to do. It's a reason to go and get coffee with someone you used to work with or have a Zoom chat because you want to pick their like in all kinds of ways, there's positive things about that, and then that that leads into um you know, once you're clear on those things, it makes it more likely that you'll you'll be brave and spend more time on some kind of marketing activities than most people do. Yes, yeah, um, and uh at its simplest, and that's hard because often otherwise we fill up all our time doing the thing, and there's no time left in the week to write a blog, or to apply to speak at a conference, or to go into an online chat forum and just be helpful, or yeah, like we can get at the end of the week, and we haven't done those quote marketing or value adding things, but um a a crucial element to really get things going short term and for the rest of your career is to be the person who makes time for that. Yes, a whole nother conversation about how to get over the fact that oh, but I'm no good at selling and yeah, yeah, having to be physical, your psychology and imposter centre and all of those things. I don't discount those. But it if marketing is broadly let people who are your market know what you do and that it works, that's what marketing is. Right now, there's quite a lot who are your target market who don't know what you do, andor or all the things you do and and don't have a certainty that it works. So, can you do more of those things? And um that bit about clarity of your brand and what difference you make to people can help you be more likely to do those because you're more confident to do that.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, yeah.

Rob Woods:

And then I guess within that, a couple of other distinctions I've learned over the years is that the the the ones that make the biggest difference and have fewer, I mean there's always stresses running your own business, but the fewest stresses in terms of will I have a customer next week, the ones that do best are the ones that add most value to their marketplace without asking for money. And that can be hard when you feel early on, oh but I need some paid work. But but if you're absolutely determined to help not help everyone, but absolutely clear on who your target market is and and create things that are genuinely useful to them without them necessarily needing to pay for it, that is you know five and a half years on. I'm still hard work though it is, creating a a podcast episode, which I do my best to always make as good as it can be. You know, every fortnight for pretty much five and a half years. I'm I'm I'm trying to just help, even if no one ever pays me. Yeah. My Breakfast Club for fundraising leaders has been going for 11 years, four times a year for 11 years. Used to be in person, now it's online, and we get hundreds of people logging on from all around the world. And it's really hard work to keep the quality high. But yeah, the things in a way that I'm most proud of, and in a way that I'm working hardest on on my business, is if I write a blog, create a podcast, a breakfast club, or any of the other things, I just have to keep helping as many people as I can. And A, that just feels good, it makes me excited. It's a privilege to be able to put out a podcast and then have someone in in Australia or Newcastle message me back and say, Do you know it helped? And I picked up the phone number, like that's a privilege to be able to do that anyway. Do it because it's the right thing to do. And crucially, if you can find I guess this might be my last idea, it's okay not to do everything. Oh, but someone said I've got to be on Instagram, and someone said I need a podcast, and oh my not blogging, and the next that what is the next flavor of the month thing? Like, you're never gonna be able to do all of it. A key thing I would advise is try what what what feels like a thing you could enjoy doing and that would be useful to them, and it might be a blog, it might be a vlog, it might be a podcast, it might be just every single week, three times a week, going onto that chat forum and being the most genuinely helpful person with no strings attached. Doesn't matter what what it is, but try a couple of things, try three things, but some of them won't work for you either because you'll hate it or you're no good at it, or it but try some of them bravely, and even that most people don't get around to doing. Try some of them, but my top tip would be to try to find one of them that you can then do consistently. Yeah, and in my early days it was to speak at as many conferences as possible. And then my next iteration uh was to write blogs fairly consistently, and for a year or two I did that, and then my next iteration was uh a breakfast club, and that's kept going. But I you know quite a few people know me for that. And then but then my my my latest one that I I'm so so proud of is is uh to the podcast just has worked because of my skill set and my mentality and how many wonderful fundraisers there are in our sector who are kind enough to share their stories. Um I'm okay that I'm at the moment I'm not blogging as much as I intend to.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah.

Rob Woods:

I'm okay that I I'm not on certain social media platforms.

Jane Curtis:

Yes.

Rob Woods:

I'm okay that I'm I'm not very good at giving advice on chat forums because my advice, as listeners can tell, are always too long to fit in a in a in that there's things that I I'm not doing, but the things I have decided I can do and my market tells me that the hard really hard thing for our listeners, but my top tip would be try and find one thing that you do consistently. Yes, it might not be every week, but even if it's just once a month I'm gonna do this thing, or I'm gonna try LinkedIn twice a week for see if I can six months. Try and get some kind of it's the consistency. Yeah, because A, you get better at the thing, and B, people start to account for it. And then and and that that to me is was was not obvious to me years ago. It's still gonna make it easy, it's still re I still find it really hard, yeah.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, yeah.

Rob Woods:

Sticking to my schedule, publishing schedule. But my view is it's if you can find a way to do it and do it in the thing that works for you and them, it really is the antidote to forever feeling guilty that you're not all over the place.

Jane Curtis:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think you know, for me, it's always been about the path of least resistance. So, you know, I'm not good at doing certain things, but I am better at doing other things, so that's where I'm gonna sort of lean towards doing that. I love writing content, so I've done a weekly email for the last four or five years, like um, and I've kept that going, and that obviously that grows your awareness and um uh and then I can reuse that content in other places, so you know it it's it keeps on giving back, doesn't it? But um yeah, I think you've got to enjoy it if it feels really hard and heavy and onerous, you're not gonna be able to get to that consistency um of keeping going with it. But um, but yeah, I love all those tips, I think they're super helpful. Um, how can listeners find out more about you, Bright Spot, the podcast? I mean, we'll we'll put everything in the show notes below, but what's the best way of getting hold of you, Rob?

Rob Woods:

Uh I think two things really. If if the listeners know that podcasts is part of their their habit and they like listening for entertainment or for learning, then my top tip would would be to give my show a try. It's called Fundraising Bright Spots. It's got a pink logo thing, and it's on Spotify and uh Apple Podcasts and so on. So just give that a try, and if you like it, then then just sub subscribe, and then every fortnight you'll get you know a hot half hour of different ideas and examples and tips to help you raise more money in all kinds of different fundraising and leadership things. Uh, and the other thing is I've got lots of other free content on my website as well as if people want to find out about uh either our team training in-house for your charity or uh quite well-known things now, uh six-month mastery programs, either corporate partnerships mastery or major gifts mastery, we're quite well known for. Uh, if you're interested in that, or indeed our BrightSpot Members Club, the thing to do is just go and see those courses or some other, you know, our blogs and lots of other free content at uh brightspotfundraising.co.uk.

Jane Curtis:

Brilliant. Thank you so much, Rob. That has been a brilliant chat. I hope other people have enjoyed it as much as I have. Um, and it's just about time for our afternoon nap. So have a good rest of your day. Thanks for listening, everybody. That's a wrap on another episode of The Other Side. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a colleague who might be thinking about their own freelance journey. And if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Remember, freelancing doesn't have to be a lonely journey. Whether it's joining communities like the Charity Freelancer Chat or signing up to the Charity Freelancing course or simply reaching out to former colleagues, connection is key to thriving as a freelancer. You can find all the links and resources we mentioned today in the show notes. And if you want to connect with me, you can find me on LinkedIn, where you can also sign up to the charity freelancing course wait list. Until next time, keep exploring what's possible on the other side.